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第 51 楼 / 俺穷俺傻
- 时间: 2005-4-18 22:40广播兄， 俺斗胆进言几句。。。。。
怎么说那， 作为六四的见证人和经历人， 俺对GCD没有什么好感。GCD错的，俺们就要反。 可， 不能因为GCD支持， 俺们就要反。犹太人， 到现在还猛追战犯那， 前一阵加拿大还把纳粹集中营的战犯，以80+高龄送回波兰审判。 这么说， don't let your anti-GCD sentiments hinder your vision.
当然， 砸日本人的，袭击日本大使馆， 太stupid. 两国交战，不斩使者。。。。。
[quote:693f901e72="广播体操"][quote:693f901e72="游主任"]“轧个闹猛”和“无赖”是一个概念么？说有人“轧个闹猛”是善意的批评，说他们是“无赖”就是恶意的咒骂了。你怎么能这样随便侮辱自己的同胞？你入了美国和加拿大国籍就以为自己高人一等，学会用那种最浅薄的外国人的眼光来看待自己的同胞了？！
[/quote:693f901e72]
[color=blue:693f901e72]嘿嘿，又一个紧跟我帖子的，连我的国籍都记得那么清楚，好。
常觉得自己低人一等的才老是指责别人高人一等。
同胞中就没有无赖了吗？华人说华人是无赖就是“侮辱自己的同胞”？哈哈，今天新学的。
别老外国人，外国人的，在这里你才是名副其实的外国人。说人浅薄，倒要看看你能厚到哪里去。
能看到游主任你那么恼羞成怒，不容易。哈哈，好看。用词再猛一点，语气再怒一点，问号，感叹号再多一点嘛，哈哈哈
要是这帖是从小粪青那里来的我觉得好玩，要是从大粪青那儿来的，那就是我的freak show at the circus了，网上就是好玩。 :lol: :lol:
别睡觉，再来一个。[/color:693f901e72][/quote:693f901e72] -
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- 时间: 2005-4-18 22:43[quote:a0422253f6="广播体操"][color=blue:a0422253f6]常觉得自己低人一等的才老是指责别人高人一等。 [/color:a0422253f6][/quote:a0422253f6]
应该说，常觉得自己低人一等的人才老是靠着贬低自己的同胞来获得虚假的满足感。
[quote:a0422253f6="广播体操"][color=blue:a0422253f6]同胞中就没有无赖了吗？华人说华人是无赖就是“侮辱自己的同胞”？哈哈，今天新学的。[/color:a0422253f6][/quote:a0422253f6]
华人里当然有无赖，这个大家心里都很清楚。但把参加反日游行的一半说成是“无赖”难道不是在侮辱自己的同胞么？
说个别人“无赖”和说一个群体“无赖”是完全不同的两个概念。在加拿大你可以歧视某个个人，但你不能歧视一个种族，对不对？
这种偷换概念的行为倒真是有点[b:a0422253f6]无赖[/b:a0422253f6]。
[quote:a0422253f6="广播体操"][color=blue:a0422253f6]别老外国人，外国人的，[b:a0422253f6]在这里你才是名副其实的外国人[/b:a0422253f6]。说人浅薄，倒要看看你能厚到哪里去。[/color:a0422253f6][/quote:a0422253f6]
说你浅薄你就立马要证明给人看。
你怎么知道我不是加拿大公民？你凭什么说我是“外国人”？
加西是一个中文世界，在华人圈子里说“外国人”是什么意思你真的不知道么？况且，我说的是他们看待中国人的眼光，相对于中国人来说，他们当然是“外国人”。
[quote:a0422253f6="广播体操"][color=blue:a0422253f6]能看到游主任你那么恼羞成怒，不容易。哈哈，好看。用词再猛一点，语气再怒一点，问号，感叹号再多一点嘛，哈哈哈[/color:a0422253f6][/quote:a0422253f6]
嘿嘿，你说这话之前也不先掂量掂量自己，你够份量么？
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- 时间: 2005-4-18 22:45[quote:332c092ecc="cloud"]Y有病
[quote:332c092ecc="广播体操"][quote:332c092ecc="游主任"]“轧个闹猛”和“无赖”是一个概念么？说有人“轧个闹猛”是善意的批评，说他们是“无赖”就是恶意的咒骂了。你怎么能这样随便侮辱自己的同胞？你入了美国和加拿大国籍就以为自己高人一等，学会用那种最浅薄的外国人的眼光来看待自己的同胞了？！[/quote:332c092ecc]
[color=blue:332c092ecc]嘿嘿，又一个紧跟我帖子的，连我的国籍都记得那么清楚，好。
常觉得自己低人一等的才老是指责别人高人一等。
同胞中就没有无赖了吗？华人说华人是无赖就是“侮辱自己的同胞”？哈哈，今天新学的。
别老外国人，外国人的，在这里你才是名副其实的外国人。说人浅薄，倒要看看你能厚到哪里去。
能看到游主任你那么恼羞成怒，不容易。哈哈，好看。用词再猛一点，语气再怒一点，问号，感叹号再多一点嘛，哈哈哈
要是这帖是从小粪青那里来的我觉得好玩，要是从大粪青那儿来的，那就是我的freak show at the circus了，网上就是好玩。 :lol: :lol:
别睡觉，再来一个。[/color:332c092ecc][/quote:332c092ecc][/quote:332c092ecc]
[color=red:332c092ecc][b:332c092ecc]是，病的症状就是坐在我的大班椅中，边喝红酒边逗大大小小的粪青们玩。它们越恼羞成怒，越和我[i:332c092ecc]“论理”，[/i:332c092ecc]我的积分就越高。。。。
比如说能逗出老粪青那一贴来，不容易啊。 :lol: :lol: [/b:332c092ecc][/color:332c092ecc] -
- 时间: 2005-4-18 22:47Let me reply to some of these posts.
Canada is my country, my only country. When I came here as a child from Europe my parents told me that my future was here, period. My parents, who grew up in Europe, would criticize Canada and Canadians. They could not help it. That is the way of first generation immigrants. But then they would tell my brother and me that we should be proud of Canada. This was our country now.
Tonight I went to dinner in my favourite little fish restaurant in Dundarave. I sat at the bar talking to the bartender, the waiters, the chef and other guests. There were Chinese origin, Filipino origin, European origin and Indian origin people there. They all speak English the same way. They all work together in the same spirit. That is my vision of Canada. One society working together where racial or ethnic origin simply does not matter.
I have no interest in seeing islands of Chinese, or Indian or Filipino or Russian or German culture etc. here. I have good friends whose background is in these cultures but who are fully integrated into Canadian culture. Whatever their personal cultural interests are does not concern me. They operate as Canadians, period. That is the only future that I think will work in Canada. This is hard for the first generation but I think they should accept it for the second generation.
If the Arab Canadians revolt at SFU because the Israeli Ambassador comes to speak, I am appalled. If Chinese immigrants presssure Raymond Chan to favour the Chinese position vis-a-vis Japan, I am opposed. If Canadian Jews raise money for Israel or Izzy Asper pushes the Israeli agenda in his Canadian newspapers it upsets me. That is just how I see things. I came here to be Canadian. That is what my family did and that is what I favour. Sorry , no arguments will change my view on that.
When I grew up we had Greeks, Italians, Japanese, Chinese, Syrian, German, Polish Hungarian and I do not know what else in our school. We were all the same and had the same interests. Multiculturalism did not exist and we all played at each others houses and got along fine.
As to China-Japan relations and the demonstrations in China. There is no question in my mind that these demonstrations are tolerated and encouraged by the Chinese government. Otherwise they would be stopped right away. A double edged sword as 广播体操 pointed out.
I am sure the demonstrators believe in what they are doing, but then so did the Red Guards. I did not see too many workers and peasants in the ranks of the demonstrators, but rather lots of well dressed young people whom I suspect are full of simplistic ideas. But then that is the prerogative of youth.
I think it is unacceptable that the Japanese government approves dishonest right-wing text books for their schools, even if only 0.4% of schools use them. I think that scholars in other countries should join the many Japanese scholars and others who are opposed to this. It should be done in an intelligent way so as not to strengthen the position of these Japanese "patriots". Having said that, it is normal that Japan should want to portray their history in such a way that Japanese school children can be proud of their ancestors. The Japanese perspective will not be the same as the Chinese, Korean or American perspective.
I am not opposed to Koizumi visiting Yasukuni Shrine where over 2 million Japanese are buried. I am opposed to some of the messages at Yasukuni Shrine which glorify the deeds of Japanese imperialists and militarists. I do not think Tojo Hideki compares with Hitler as I have said before.
History is always being rewritten. The Taiping armies massacred 50,000 mostly civilian Manchus in Nanjing in 1853. Yet the Taiping rebellion was praised by the Communists at the first peasant revolt in modern times in China. Zeng Guofan suppressed the Taiping and killed 100,000 of them at Nanjing in 1864 or something and was long reviled as a villain. Now he is a hero again.
Mao and Stalin are still revered in their countries despite their responsibility in the deaths of many many people. What will people say in 50 years?
The Rape of Nanjing is a particularly brutal example of a tactic that has been part of warfare since before Ghenghis Khan - terrorize the civilian population to weaken resistance. We have have seen even larger scales rapes and massacres in Bosnia and Bangladesh in more recent times. These people still have to find ways to live together.
The memory of the Nanjing massacre should not prevent Japanese and Chinese people from working together today. It is a new generation. To talk of killing the Japanese pigs, wishing atomic bombs on them etc. or even damaging or boycotting their products makes no sense to me.
As to Youke's suggestion that I have an attitude problem and that I cannot judge Chinese affairs, I will just say that if my opinions and attitudes displease him that is his problem and not mine.
To容若, I question why people come here from China if they do not wish to be Canadian, in the full sense of the term. They are certainly better off professionally in China, and can give full vent to their patriotism there.
It was obvious from the recent conference that I attended entitled "Chinese credential problem¨that there is no Chinese credential problem. There is, instead, a great language and cultural interaction problem amongst recent immigrants from China. The term used in one report was the ¨collapse of the earning power¨ of immigrants from China compared to skilled immigrants from other origins, and previous cohorts of Chinese immigrants. The majority of ¨skilled¨immigrants from China will work at low wages for Chinese employers. They will stay in their Chinese village and complain about their fate. Or, perhaps as one poster here at Westca suggested, it is just a matter of waiting until Chinese becomes the mainstream culture here, then they will no longer have to learn English.
That may happen, but you will have to forgive me if it is not a prospect that I welcome. -
- 时间: 2005-4-18 22:48[quote:6754711dfc="游主任"]应该说，常觉得自己低人一等的人才老是靠着贬低自己的同胞来获得虚假的满足感。华人里当然有无赖，这个大家心里都很清楚。但把参加反日游行的一半说成是“无赖”难道不是在侮辱自己的同胞么？说个别人“无赖”和说一个群体“无赖”是完全不同的两个概念。在加拿大你可以歧视某个个人，但你不能歧视一个种族，对不对？说你浅薄你就立马要证明给人看。你怎么知道我不是加拿大公民？你凭什么说我是“外国人”？加西是一个中文世界，在华人圈子里说“外国人”是什么意思你真的不知道么？况且，我说的是他们看待中国人的眼光，相对于中国人来说，他们当然是“外国人”嘿嘿，你说这话之前也不先掂量掂量自己，你够份量么？ [/quote:6754711dfc]
[color=blue:6754711dfc]说来还真的来了，正赌着呢。又加一分，哈哈。[/color:6754711dfc] :lol: -
- 时间: 2005-4-18 22:49广播兄， 再斗胆进一言，大家都是在这for fun, 您大可不必，一览众山小， 把别人都当猴看，您说是不？
[quote:11eb7eb71e="广播体操"]
[color=red:11eb7eb71e][b:11eb7eb71e]是，病的症状就是坐在我的大班椅中，边喝红酒边逗大大小小的粪青们玩。它们越恼羞成怒，越和我[i:11eb7eb71e]“论理”，[/i:11eb7eb71e]我的积分就越高。。。。
比如说能逗出老粪青那一贴来，不容易啊。 :lol: :lol: [/b:11eb7eb71e][/color:11eb7eb71e][/quote:11eb7eb71e] -
- 时间: 2005-4-18 22:56[quote:a84d665f6b="Steve"]Let me reply to some of these posts.
Canada is my country, my only country. When I came here as a child from Europe my parents told me that my future was here, period. My parents, who grew up in Europe, would criticize Canada and Canadians. They could not help it. That is the way of first generation immigrants. But then they would tell my brother and me that we should be proud of Canada. This was our country now.
Tonight I went to dinner in my favourite little fish restaurant in Dundarave. I sat at the bar talking to the bartender, the waiters, the chef and other guests. There were Chinese origin, Filipino origin, European origin and Indian origin people there. They all speak English the same way. They all work together in the same spirit. That is my vision of Canada. One society working together where racial or ethnic origin simply does not matter.
I have no interest in seeing islands of Chinese, or Indian or Filipino or Russian or German culture etc. here. I have good friends whose background is in these cultures but who are fully integrated into Canadian culture. Whatever their personal cultural interests are does not concern me. They operate as Canadians, period. That is the only future that I think will work in Canada. This is hard for the first generation but I think they should accept it for the second generation.
If the Arab Canadians revolt at SFU because the Israeli Ambassador comes to speak, I am appalled. If Chinese immigrants presssure Raymond Chan to favour the Chinese position vis-a-vis Japan, I am opposed. If Canadian Jews raise money for Israel or Izzy Asper pushes the Israeli agenda in his Canadian newspapers it upsets me. That is just how I see things. I came here to be Canadian. That is what my family did and that is what I favour. Sorry , no arguments will change my view on that.
When I grew up we had Greeks, Italians, Japanese, Chinese, Syrian, German, Polish Hungarian and I do not know what else in our school. We were all the same and had the same interests. Multiculturalism did not exist and we all played at each others houses and got along fine.
As to China-Japan relations and the demonstrations in China. There is no question in my mind that these demonstrations are tolerated and encouraged by the Chinese government. Otherwise they would be stopped right away. A double edged sword as 广播体操 pointed out.
I am sure the demonstrators believe in what they are doing, but then so did the Red Guards. I did not see too many workers and peasants in the ranks of the demonstrators, but rather lots of well dressed young people whom I suspect are full of simplistic ideas. But then that is the prerogative of youth.
I think it is unacceptable that the Japanese government approves dishonest right-wing text books for their schools, even if only 0.4% of schools use them. I think that scholars in other countries should join the many Japanese scholars and others who are opposed to this. It should be done in an intelligent way so as not to strengthen the position of these Japanese "patriots". Having said that, it is normal that Japan should want to portray their history in such a way that Japanese school children can be proud of their ancestors. The Japanese perspective will not be the same as the Chinese, Korean or American perspective.
I am not opposed to Koizumi visiting Yasukuni Shrine where over 2 million Japanese are buried. I am opposed to some of the messages at Yasukuni Shrine which glorify the deeds of Japanese imperialists and militarists. I do not think Tojo Hideki compares with Hitler as I have said before.
History is always being rewritten. The Taiping armies massacred 50,000 mostly civilian Manchus in Nanjing in 1853. Yet the Taiping rebellion was praised by the Communists at the first peasant revolt in modern times in China. Zeng Guofan suppressed the Taiping and killed 100,000 of them at Nanjing in 1864 or something and was long reviled as a villain. Now he is a hero again.
Mao and Stalin are still revered in their countries despite their responsibility in the deaths of many many people. What will people say in 50 years?
The Rape of Nanjing is a particularly brutal example of a tactic that has been part of warfare since before Ghenghis Khan - terrorize the civilian population to weaken resistance. We have have seen even larger scales rapes and massacres in Bosnia and Bangladesh in more recent times. These people still have to find ways to live together.
The memory of the Nanjing massacre should not prevent Japanese and Chinese people from working together today. It is a new generation. To talk of killing the Japanese pigs, wishing atomic bombs on them etc. or even damaging or boycotting their products makes no sense to me.
As to Youke's suggestion that I have an attitude problem and that I cannot judge Chinese affairs, I will just say that if my opinions and attitudes displease him that is his problem and not mine.
To容若, I question why people come here from China if they do not wish to be Canadian, in the full sense of the term. They are certainly better off professionally in China, and can give full vent to their patriotism there.
It was obvious from the recent conference that I attended entitled "Chinese credential problem¨that there is no Chinese credential problem. There is, instead, a great language and cultural interaction problem amongst recent immigrants from China. The term used in one report was the ¨collapse of the earning power¨ of immigrants from China compared to skilled immigrants from other origins, and previous cohorts of Chinese immigrants. The majority of ¨skilled¨immigrants from China will work at low wages for Chinese employers. They will stay in their Chinese village and complain about their fate. Or, perhaps as one poster here at Westca suggested, it is just a matter of waiting until Chinese becomes the mainstream culture here, then they will no longer have to learn English.
That may happen, but you will have to forgive me if it is not a prospect that I welcome.[/quote:a84d665f6b]
[b:a84d665f6b]讲的精彩。[/b:a84d665f6b] -
- 时间: 2005-4-18 23:00
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- 时间: 2005-4-18 23:00[quote:e327f95bf0="Steve"]I have no interest in seeing islands of Chinese, or Indian or Filipino or Russian or German culture etc. here. [/quote:e327f95bf0]
That's interesting. Isn't Westca one of the islands of Chinese culture in Canada? Why are you here if you have no interest in seeing it? -
- 时间: 2005-4-18 23:26[quote:39f05658d1="俺穷俺傻"]广播兄， 俺斗胆进言几句。。。。。
怎么说那， 作为六四的见证人和经历人， 俺对GCD没有什么好感。GCD错的，俺们就要反。 可， 不能因为GCD支持， 俺们就要反。犹太人， 到现在还猛追战犯那， 前一阵加拿大还把纳粹集中营的战犯，以80+高龄送回波兰审判。 这么说， [b:39f05658d1]don't let your anti-GCD sentiments hinder your vision.[/b:39f05658d1]
当然， 砸日本人的，袭击日本大使馆， 太stupid. 两国交战，不斩使者。。。。。
[/quote:39f05658d1]
[color=blue:39f05658d1]大哥直言无妨。
虽和你一样是六四的见证人和经历人，但我从来也没有let anti-GCD sentiments hinder my vision. 相反我一直认为大陆政府现在是在走资本主义道路，把保护私有财产也载入了宪法。。。这一切都是慢慢在向好的方向发展。
比如说这次反日游行，我根本不认为是大陆政府唆使的，而是一批 losers 在搞事。它们整天就是要搞垮中日中美关系，这对中国一无好处。至于对日本修改教科书，参拜神社一类的，你看一下我在网狐问卷中的回答，就知道我的态度了。
可笑的是那些个大小粪青们，以为中国人之中，除了他们能在网上骂骂人，网下搞搞打砸抢，就没人爱国了。[/color:39f05658d1]
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