1A. King Hui of Liang: Part One 梁惠王上

1A:1. Opening Question to Mencius

孟子见梁惠王。王曰、 叟、不远千里而来、亦将有以利吾国乎。孟子对曰、 王何必曰利。亦有仁义而已矣。王曰、何以利吾国。大夫曰、何以利吾家。士庶人曰、何以利吾身。上下交征利、而国危矣。万乘之国弒其君者、必千乘之家、千乘之国、弒其君者、必百乘之家。万取千焉、千取百焉、不为不多矣、苟为後义而先利、不夺不餍。未有仁而遗其亲者也、未有义而後其君者也。王亦曰仁义而已矣、何必曰利。

Mencius went to see King Hui of Liang. The King said: “My good man, since you haven't thought one thousand li too far to come and see me, may I presume that you have something with which I can profit my kingdom?”

Mencius said: “Why must you speak of profit? What I have for you is humaneness and fairness, and that's all. If you always say ‘how can I profit my kingdom?’ your ministers will ask, ‘how can we profit our clans?’ The elites (shi) 1 and the common people will ask: ‘How can we profit ourselves?’ Superiors and inferiors will struggle against each other for profit, and the country will be in chaos.”

“In a kingdom of ten thousand chariots, the murderer of the sovereign is usually from a clan of one thousand chariots. In a thousand-chariot kingdom, the murderer of the sovereign is usually from a clan of one hundred chariots. Now, to have a thousand in ten thousand, or one hundred in a thousand is not a small number. But if you put justice last and profit first, no one will be satisfied unless they can grab something.”

“There has never been a humane man who neglected his parents, and there has never been a just man who put his prince last in his priorities. King, can we not limit our conversation to humaneness and justice? Why must we discuss profit?”

1A:2. The Marvelous Pavilion

孟子见梁惠王、王立於沼上、顾鸿鴈麋鹿。曰、 贤者亦乐此乎。孟子对曰、 贤者而後乐此。不贤者虽有此、不乐也。诗云。‘经始灵台、经之营之、庶民攻之、不日成之。经始勿亟、庶民子来。王在灵囿、麀鹿攸伏、麀鹿濯濯、白鸟鹤鹤。王在灵沼、於牣鱼跃。’文王以民力为台为沼。而民欢乐之、谓其台曰灵台、谓其沼曰灵沼、乐其有麋鹿鱼鳖。古之人与民偕乐、故能乐也。汤誓曰、‘时日害丧。予及女偕亡。’民欲与之偕亡、虽有台池鸟兽、岂能独乐哉。

When Mencius went to see King Hui of Liang, he was standing over his royal lake, watching the geese and deer. The King said: “Shall the Worthy also enjoy this kind of thing?” Mencius replied: “”After one is truly worthy he can enjoy this kind of thing. The unworthy, even if they have it, will not really enjoy it. The Book of Odes says:

He measured and commenced work on the marvelous pavilion.

He measured it and started it,

The people worked hard on it

[He told them] ‘Don't hurry in the work!’.

But all the people came like children to their parent.

When the King was at his wildlife preserve.

All kinds of deer lay down at ease,

Well-fed, with a glossy sheen to their fur.

The cranes were bright white.

When the King was at his marvelous lake,

It was alive with jumping fish

King Wen, using the strength of the people built a pavilion and a lake, and the people delighted in this. They called his pavilion the Marvelous Pavilion, and they called his lake the Marvelous Lake, and they enjoyed the deer, fish, and turtles that were kept there. The ancients were able to enjoy things together with their king. It was because of that that it was enjoyable. The Report of Tang says: “When will this Sun 2 see its demise? I will die together with you.” The people wanted to die together with him. Even though you have a pavilion and lake with birds and animals, how can you enjoy these by yourself?

1A:3. Exerting his Mind

梁惠王曰、 寡人之於国也、尽心焉耳矣。河内凶、则移其民於河东、移其粟於河内、河东凶亦然。察邻国之政、无如寡人之用心者、邻国之民不加少、寡人之民不加多。何也。
孟子对曰、 王好战、请以战喩。塡然鼓之、兵刃旣接、弃甲曳兵而走、或百步而後止、或五十步而後止、以五十步笑百步、则何如。
曰、 不可。直不百步耳、是亦走也。曰、 王如知此、则无望民之多於邻国也。不违农时、穀不可胜食也、数罟不入洿池、鱼鼈不可胜食也、斧斤以时入山林、材木不可胜用也、穀与鱼鼈不可胜食、材木不可胜用、是使民养生丧死无憾也、养生丧死无憾、王道之始也。
五亩之宅、树之以桑、五十者可以衣帛矣、鸡豚狗彘之畜、无失其时、七十者可以食肉矣、百亩之田、勿夺於时、数口之家可以无饥矣、谨庠序之教、 申之以孝悌之义、颁白者不负戴於道路矣、七十者衣帛食肉、黎民不饥不寒、然而不王者、未之有也。
狗彘食人食而不知检、涂有饿莩而不知发、人死、则曰、非我也、岁也。是何异於刺人而杀之、曰、非我也、兵也。王无罪岁、斯天下之民至焉。

King Hui of Liang said: “I exert my whole consciousness towards my people. When there is disaster in He-nei, I move the people to He-dong and bring grain to He-nei. When there is disaster in He-dong, I do likewise. 3 Now, if you look at the government in neighboring kingdoms, there is no one who is as dedicated to his people as I. Yet why is it that the people don't move from other states and come to mine?”

Mencius replied: “Your majesty, you like war, right? Let me make an example with war: The drummers have psyched the soldiers into the battlefield and the battle is engaged. Some soldiers throw off their heavy armor and flee, dragging their weapons. One fellow runs a hundred paces and stops. Another runs fifty paces and stops. What would you think if the one who ran fifty paces laughs at the one who ran a hundred?”

The King said: “No way. Even though he didn't run a hundred paces, he still ran.”

Mencius said: “If you realize this, then you shouldn't expect people to move to your kingdom. If you don't interfere with the timing of the farmers, there will be more grain than can be eaten. If fine-mesh nets are kept out of the ponds and lakes, there will be more fish and turtles than you can eat. If loggers are regulated in their woodcutting, there will be more wood than can be used. When there is more grain, more fish and turtles than can be eaten, and more wood than can be used, the people will nourish the living and mourn the dead without resentment. Nourishing the living and mourning the dead without resentment is the beginning of the road to true kingship.”

“If mulberry trees are planted around homesteads of an acre, then people fifty years old can be clothed in silk. If, in the raising of fowl, pigs, dogs, and swine, their breeding times are not missed, then people seventy years old can eat meat. If you do not upset the farming schedule in a farm of twenty acres, then a large clan will never be hungry. Pay careful attention to education, basing it on the fairness of filial piety and respect for elders, and the gray-haired people will not be in the streets carrying heavy burdens on their backs. There has never been a case where the people of seventy were eating meat and the common people 4 were free from cold and hunger, where the king was not well regarded.”

“But [in your kingdom], dogs and swine eat the people's food, and you don't control it. People are dying of starvation in the streets and it doesn't occur to you to distribute grain from the storehouses. People die, and you say: ‘It's not my fault; it was a bad harvest.’ How is this different from stabbing a man to death and saying, ‘It wasn't me, it was the knife.’ If you would stop placing the blame on bad harvests, all of the people in the country would come to you.”

1A:4. Receiving Advice

梁惠王曰、 寡人愿安承教。
孟子对曰、 杀人以梃与刃、有以异乎。
曰、 无以异也。
以刃与政有以异乎。
曰、 无以异也。
曰、 庖有肥肉、廏有肥马、民有飢色、野有饿莩。此率兽而食人也。兽相食、且人恶之。为民父母行政、不免於率兽而食人、恶在其为民父母也。仲尼曰、始作俑者、其无後乎。为其象人而用之也、如之何其使斯民饥而死也。

King Hui of Liang said: “I would like to quietly receive your advice.”

Mencius said: “Is there any difference between killing a man with a stick or a sword?”

The King replied: “No difference.”

Mencius said: “Is there any difference between doing it with a sword and doing it with government?”

“No difference” was the reply.

Mencius said: “There are loads of fat meat in your kitchen and fat horses in your stables, while the people have gaunt appearances, and those in the countryside are dying of starvation. Animals are even eating people. Now, men despise animals who feed on each other. And you say you want to be ‘the parent of the people.’ But in the actual handling of your government, you cannot even prevent animals from feeding on men. How can you be regarded as a ‘parent of the people?’”

“Confucius said: ‘Isn't it true that the first fellow who made wooden images for burial with the dead had no posterity?’ This is because he made images of men and used them for such a purpose. What memory shall there be of the man who made his people die of starvation?”

1A:5. 梁上: War with Jin

梁惠王曰、 晋国、天下莫犟焉、叟之所知也。及寡人之身、东败於齐、长子死焉、西丧地於秦七百里、南辱於楚。寡人耻之、愿比死者壹洒之、如之何则可。

King Hui of Liang said: “As you know, venerable sir, there is not a stronger state in the country than Jin. Since they attacked me, we have also lost on the east to Qi, where my eldest son died. On the west, we have lost several hundred li of territory to Qin and on the south we have been embarrassed by Chu. I have been shamed by this and would like to clear the slate for my ancestors once and for all. How can I do it? ”

孟子对曰、 地方百里而可以王。王如施仁政於民、省刑罚、薄税歛、深耕易耨、壮者以暇日修其孝悌忠信、入以事其父兄、出以事其长上。可使制梃以挞秦楚之坚甲利兵矣。

Mencius replied: “A territory one hundred li square is enough to constitute a viable kingship. Your majesty should give a humane government to the people; be careful in punishing crime; make the taxes light; plow the fields deeply and hoe them well. Then all the strong and healthy people can in their leisure time cultivate filial piety, sibling affection, loyalty and sincerity. If they do this, then when they are at home they can serve their fathers and elder brothers, and when they are out in the world they can serve their elders and superiors. These people will be able, with [only] sharpened sticks, to give a beating to Qin and Chu with their hard armor and sharp weapons. ”

彼夺其民时、使不得耕耨以养其父母。父母冻饿、兄弟妻子离散。彼陷溺其民。王往而征之、夫谁与王敌。故曰、仁者无敌。王请勿疑。

“Those rulers snatch the people at the times of cultivation, such that they are unable to do the plowing and hoeing which is necessary to support their parents. Mothers and fathers are cold and hungry; older and younger brothers, wives and children are separated and scattered. In this way these rulers trap and bury their own people. If you, King, would go and chastise them, who will oppose you? Don't doubt the ancient proverb: ‘The Humane man has no one to oppose him.’ King, please don't doubt this!”

1A:6. King Xiang of Liang

孟子见梁襄王。出、语人曰、望之不似人君、就之而不[见所]畏焉。卒然问曰、天下恶乎定。

Mencius had an audience with King Xiang of Liang. When he came out, he said to some people: “When I saw him at a distance, he did not look like a king, and when I approached him, there was nothing to be in awe of. Abruptly he asked me: ‘How can the situation of the Central Kingdom be settled down?’”

吾对曰、定於一。孰能一之。对曰、不嗜杀人者能一之。孰能与之。

“I answered: ‘It can be settled down by unification.’”

He said: ‘Who can unify it?’

“I replied: ‘He who does not like killing men can unify it.’”

“He asked: ‘Who has the power to grant someone this ability?’”

对曰、天下莫不与也。王知夫苗乎。七八月之间旱、则苗槁矣。天油然作云、沛然下雨、则苗浡然兴之矣。其如是、孰能禦之。今夫天下之人牧、未有不嗜杀人者也。如有不嗜杀人者、则天下之民皆引领而望之矣。诚如是也、民归之、由水之就下、沛然 谁能禦之。

“I answered again, saying: ‘There is no one in the land who would not grant it. Do you know anything about farming? During the seventh and eighth months it gets dry and the plants wither. The heavens gradually gather clouds, and when there is a sudden downpour of rain, the plants come vibrantly to life. Your situation being like this, who will oppose you? Now, among those who are leaders in this country, there are none who dislike killing men. If there were one who disliked killing men, all the people in the country would stick their necks out merely to get a glimpse of him. If you were really like this, the people would come to you like water running downhill. Who could oppose you?’”

1A:7. King Xuan of Qi

齐宣王问曰、齐桓普文之事、可得闻乎。孟子对曰、仲尼之徒、无道桓文之事者、是以後世无传焉、臣未之闻也。无以、则王乎。

King Xuan of Qi asked: “Can give me your analysis of what happened between Duke Huan of Qi and Duke Wen of Qin? 5 ”

Mencius answered: “None of Confucius' disciples talked about Huan and Wen, so nothing was transmitted down to later generations, and so we haven't heard anything. Since I can't talk about them, how about discussing kingship?”

曰、德何如则可以王矣。曰、保民而王、莫之能禦也。

The king said: “What kind of qualities are necessary for real kingship?”

Mencius said: “If you become a king by taking care of the people, no one can oppose you.”

曰、若寡人者、可以保民乎哉。曰、可。曰、何由知吾可也。

The king said: “Is someone like me capable of taking care of the people?”

Mencius said: “Sure.”

The king said: “How do you know that I can?”

曰、 臣闻之胡龁曰、王坐於堂上、有牽牛而过堂下者、王见之、曰、牛何之。对曰、 将以衅鐘。王曰、 舍之、吾不忍其觳觫、若无罪而就死地。对曰、 然则废衅鐘与。曰、 何可废也。以羊易之。不识有诸。

“I heard this story from Hu He: He said you were sitting up in the main hall and a man walked past the lower part leading an ox. You saw this and asked: ‘What are you doing with the ox?’ He replied: ‘We are going to consecrate a bell with its blood.’ You said: ‘Let it go—I can't stand to see the agony on its face, like that of an innocent person going to execution!’ The man then answered: ‘Shall we forget the consecration of the bell?’ You said: ‘How can it be forgotten? Substitute it with a sheep!’”

Mencius then added: “I don't know if this is a true story.”

曰、 有之。曰、 是心足以王矣。百姓皆以王为爱也、臣固知王之不忍也。

The king said: “It is.”

Mencius said: “If you possess this kind of mind, you are capable of true kingship. The people all accused you of being cheap, but I am convinced that you really could not stand the sight of the ox.”

王曰、 然、诚有百姓者。齐国虽褊小、吾何爱一牛。卽不忍其觳觫、若无罪而就死地、故以羊易之也。

The king said: “You are right. Yet the people really did think I was being cheap. But the truth is, even though Qi is a fairly small kingdom, how could I begrudge a lousy ox? I really couldn't stand to see the fear in its face, like that of an innocent man going to his execution. That's why I changed it for a sheep.”

曰、 王无异於百姓之以王为爱也、以小易大、彼恶知之。王若隐其无罪而就死地、则牛羊何择焉。王笑曰、 是诚何心哉。我非爱其财而易之以羊也、宜乎百姓之谓我爱也。

Mencius said: “You should not think it strange that the people thought you were stingy. You changed a large animal for a small one, so how could they know your real motivation? If you were really pained at its innocently going to execution, what's the difference between an ox and a sheep?”

The king laughed and said: “What was I really thinking? But I didn't change it because of the expense—no wonder the people have called me cheap!”

曰、 无伤也。是乃仁术也。见牛未见羊也。君子之於禽兽也、见其生、不忍见其死。闻其声、不忍食其肉。是以君子远庖厨也。

Mencius said: “You have not done wrong. What you did was an act of humaneness. You saw the ox, but had not seen the sheep. When it comes to animals, if the Noble Man has seen them while alive, he cannot stand to watch them die. If he hears their screams, he cannot stand to eat their meat. Therefore he stays away from the kitchen.”

王说曰。诗云。他人有心、子忖度之。夫子之谓也。夫我乃行之、反而求之、不得吾心。夫子言之、於我心有戚戚焉。此心之所以合於王者、何也。

The king was pleased and said: “It is said in the Book of Odes: ‘People have their minds, I fathom them.’ What you have just said is exactly what happened with me. But when I sought within myself, I couldn't really see my own motivations. As you have shown me, there is compassion in my heart, but how can this be sufficient for kingship?”

曰。有复於王者曰。吾力足以擧百钧、而不足以擧一羽。明足以察秋毫之末、而不见舆薪。则王许之乎。曰。否。今因足以及禽兽、而功不至於百姓者、独何与。然则一羽之不擧、为不用力焉舆薪之不见、为不用明焉。百姓之不见保、为不用恩焉。故王之不王、不为也、非不能也。

Mencius said: “Suppose someone said this to you: ‘I am strong enough to lift six hundred kilos, but not strong enough to lift a feather; my eyesight is sharp enough to scrutinize the tip of autumn down, but I cannot see a wagon load of firewood. Can you go along with this?’”

“Of course not.”

“Then isn't it quite odd that your compassion reaches to animals, but not down to the people? If the single feather is not lifted, it is because your strength is not used, and when the wagon-load of firewood is not seen it is because your vision is not used. The people's not experiencing your care is because your compassion is not used. Therefore your majesty's lack of true kingship is because of a lack of effort, not a lack of ability.”

曰。不为者与不能者之形何以异。曰。挟太山以超北海、语人曰、我不能、是诚不能也、为长者折枝语人曰。我不能。是不为也、非不能也。故王之不王、非挟太山以超北海之类也王之不王、是折枝之类也。

The king asked: “Can you clarify the difference between non-effort and inability?”

Mencius replied: “If it is the case of taking Mt. T'ai under your arm and leaping over the North Sea with it, and saying: ‘I am unable’, then this is true inability. If it is the case of snapping a branch off a tree for an elder and you say ‘I am unable,’ this is non-effort, it is not inability. Thus, your majesty's not having a kingly hold over the people is not in the category of taking Mt. Tai under your arm and leaping over the North Sea.” It is the type of not breaking a branch.

老吾老、以及人之老幼吾幼。以及人之幼天下可运於掌。诗云。刑於寡妻、至于兄弟、以御於家邦。言擧斯心加诸彼而已。故推恩足以保四海、不推恩无以保妻子。古之人所以大过人者无他焉。善推其所为而已矣。

If you take care of you own elders, the common people will do the same for their elders. If you are kind to your young, the common people will be kind to their young—you will hold the kingdom in the palm of your hand. The Book of Odes says:

His example affected his wife.

It reached to his brothers,

Such that he could manage

His clan and his state.

This means that if you just extend your heart to all others, and extend your compassion, it will be enough to take care of all those in the continent. If you do not extend your compassion, you will not even be able to take care of your own wife and children. The Way in which the ancients have surpassed all others is none other than this: Their goodness extended through everything they did, and nothing more.

今恩足以及禽兽、而功不至於百姓者、独何与。权、然後知轻重度、然後知长短。物皆然、心为甚、王请度之。抑王兴甲兵、危士臣、构怨於诸侯、然後快於心与。

“Now your compassion is sufficient to reach to animals, yet lacks the effectiveness to reach the people. Isn't that something? By weighing we know what is light and heavy. By measuring we know long and short. All things are like this, and especially the mind, so why don't you measure it, king? Nowadays you build up your armaments, endanger your soldiers and officers and instigate trouble with other heads of state. Does this give you pleasure?”

王曰。否。吾何快於是。将以求吾所大欲也。

“No, how could I enjoy this? I do it to get what I really want.”

曰。王之所大欲、可得闻与。王笑而不言。曰。为肥甘不足以口与。轻煖不足於体与。抑为采色不足视於目与。声音不足聽於耳与。便嬖不足使令於前与。王之诸臣、皆足以供之。而王岂为是哉。曰。否。吾不为是也。曰。然则王之所大欲、可知已。欲辟土地、朝秦楚、莅中国、而抚四夷也。以若所为、求若所欲、犹缘木而求鱼也。

Mencius said: “What is it that you really want?”

The king just smiled and kept his mouth shut.

Mencius continued: “Are all your rich and sweet foods not enough for your taste? Is your wardrobe of winter and summer clothes not enough for your body? Or do you not have enough fancy toys to satisfy your eyes? Do you not have enough music to satisfy your ears? Or do you not have enough servants and concubines to come before you and serve you? All your ministers can certainly get all these things for you, so how can you still want more of these?”

The king said: “No, I don't want these.”

“Then it is obvious what it is you really want,” said Mencius, “you want to expand your territory, make vassals of Qin and Chu, rule the Middle Kingdom, get control over the outlying tribes. Doing the kinds of things you have been doing to get what you want is like climbing a tree to catch fish.”

王曰。若是其甚与。曰。殆有甚焉。缘木求鱼、虽不得鱼、无後灾。以若所为、求若所欲、尽心力而为之、後必有灾。曰。可得闻与。曰。邹人与楚人战、则王以为孰胜。曰。楚人胜。曰。然则小固不可以敌大、寡固不可以敌众、弱固不可以敌彊。海内之地、方千里者九、齐集有其一以一服八、何以异於邹敌楚哉。盖亦反其本矣。

“Is it that bad?”

“Even worse. If you climb a tree to catch fish, even though you won't catch anything, there will be no great calamity. But if you completely devote all of you energies to getting what you want in this way, you are sure to meet with disaster.”

The king said: “Can you explain how?”

Mencius said: “If there is a war between Zou and Chu, who do you think will win?”

“Chu will win.”

“You are right, and that means that you know that a small state cannot go up against a large state, that a few cannot oppose many, that the weak cannot contend with the strong. The continental territories of one thousand square li are nine in number and Qi (your kingdom) only makes for one. If with one part you try to subdue the other eight, how is this different from Zou's fighting Chu? Please reflect on this essential point.”

今王发政施仁、使天下仕者皆欲立於王之朝、耕者皆欲耕於王之野、商贾皆欲藏於王之市、行旅皆欲出於王之涂天下之欲疾其君者、皆欲赴愬於王。其若是、孰能禦之。

“Now if you initiate a government based on goodness, all the officials in the realm will want to come to your court; all the farmers will want to plow your fields; the merchants will want to store their goods in your marketplaces; all the travelers will want to go by your roads, and all the people in the land who are oppressed by their rulers will want to come to you for help. If they feel this way, who will be able to stop them?”

王曰。吾惛、不能进於是矣。愿夫子辅吾志、明以教我。我虽不敏、请尝试之。

The king said: “I am dull-witted, and unable to carry this out. Please help me clarify my will by instructing me. Even though I am not so sharp, I will try to do it.”

曰。无恆产而有恆心者、惟士为能。若民、则无恆产、因无恆心。苟无恆心、放辟邪侈、无不为已。及陷於罪、然後从而刑之、是罔民也。焉有仁人在位、罔民而可为也。

Mencius said: “Only a shi is able to keep a steady mind without a steady livelihood. If the common people lack a steady livelihood, they cannot be secure. If they are not secure, there is nothing they will not do in terms of criminal, depraved and selfish acts. For you to follow them up and punish them once they have committed crimes in this situation is entrapment. How could a benevolent man rule and at the same time entrap his people?”

是故、明君制民之产、必使仰足以事父母、俯足以畜妻子乐岁终身饱、凶年免於死亡。然後驱而之善、故民之从之也轻。今也制民之产、仰不足以事父母、俯不足以畜妻子乐岁终身苦、凶年不免於死亡。此惟救死而恐不贍、奚暇治礼义哉。

“Therefore the intelligent ruler will regulate the livelihood of his people so that they have enough to support their parents and their own children. In good years they will eat their full, and in bad years they will never starve. After this you can goad them toward the good, because they will follow easily. As it stands now, you regulate the livelihood of the people in such a way that they do not have enough to take care of their parents or their children. They suffer even in the good years, and in the bad years they cannot escape death. All they can do is try to avoid starving to death, all the time fearing that they will not make it. What kind of free time will there be to cultivate Propriety and fairness?”

王欲行之、则盍反其本矣。五亩之宅、树之以桑、五十者可以衣帛矣。鸡豚狗彘之畜、无失其时、七十者可以食肉矣。百亩之田、勿夺其时。八口之家可以无飢矣。谨庠序之教、申之以孝悌之义、颁白者不负戴於道路矣。老者衣帛食肉、黎民不飢不寒然而不王者、未之有也。

“If you really want to bring this about, you'd better get back to the basics. If mulberry trees are planted on plots of one acre, people in their fifties can wear silk. If you do not pull the men away for battle during the breeding times of your livestock, people in their seventies can eat meat. If the proper planting, cultivation and harvesting times are not missed, the family of eight that lives off a twenty-acre farm will not go hungry. Pay careful attention to education, teaching the fairness of filial piety and fraternity, and the gray-haired will not be seen in the streets carrying heavy burdens on their backs.”

“There has never been a case where the elderly wore silk and ate meat, and the black-haired people suffered from neither hunger nor cold, where the kingship was not genuinely respected.”