| 廣告聯系 | 簡體版 | 手機版 | 微信 | 微博 | 搜索:
歡迎您 游客 | 登錄 | 免費注冊 | 忘記了密碼 | 社交賬號注冊或登錄

首頁

新聞資訊

論壇

溫哥華地產

大溫餐館點評

溫哥華汽車

溫哥華教育

黃頁/二手

旅游
搜索:  

 論壇通告:  加西磅停用通知   請不要上傳第三方有版權的照片,請尊重版權,謝謝   轉載新聞請務必注明出處,這些媒體請不要轉,謝謝   批評商家需要注意  
 個人空間: 豬頭看世界 | 客觀中立而實事求是,唯服理據而杜絕辱罵 | 亂想 | 大溫房產和地產研究 | 羅蓬特機器人 | 真情Z下海 | House Owner | Amy Yi | 五木森林 | 顧曉軍 | 花隨風 | 靜觀雲卷雲舒 | 呂洪來的個人空間 | XY | 湖裡湖塗 | 異鄉的世界 | 一襲絳襦落鵬城,疑似玄女下九天 | dwx | 北口前面 | 萬國商貿
 最新求助: 請問誰知道哪裡有賣理發的電動推子?   忽然有個疑問:戰爭時期,加拿大拿PR卡未入籍的永久居民會被強制服兵役嗎?   這個銀條   如何修改會員名?
 論壇轉跳:
     發帖回帖獲取加西鎊, 兌換精彩禮物

論壇首頁 -> 汽車天地

2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 vs. 2011 Porsche Cayenne S (發表於14年前)

分頁: 1, 2, 3  下一頁  



回復主題  圖片幻燈展示  增添帖子到書簽中  給帖子中的發貼者批量贈送獻花或者花籃    |##| -> |=|        發表新主題
閱讀上一個主題 :: 閱讀下一個主題  
作者 正文
rainfly
(只看此人)




文章 時間: 2012-3-28 10:16 引用回復
—Austin, Texas
It is rare that we find a road test summarized by a switch. But when we climbed into the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8, we looked down and sure enough, there it was: The Knob. Jeep has seen fit to equip the SRT8 with a control that offers settings labeled Tow/Snow/Auto/Sport/Track, a range of conditions that pretty much covers everything we want to do with a steering wheel in our hands.

We’ve long recognized that there is a seductiveness to the idea of a single vehicle that can do it all. Imagine, as many of you no doubt have, a vehicle that is enjoyable to drive, can carry more than one passenger in comfort, has enough space to haul stuff from Lowe’s to your house, can tow a boat or a race trailer and looks classy enough to take downtown to be dropped off at the valet stand. Such vehicles have an economy of thought and an American pragmatism to them.

We have, however, long been concerned that the endeavor to be a jack-of-all-trades usually had the clichéd result. Let’s face it, it is hard to make a vehicle big enough to tow well and light enough to deliver sports car handling. In fact, it is impossible at the current state-of-the-art, and perhaps always will be, given the pesky nature of the laws of physics. But, with crossovers and SUVs having represented a large chunk of the market for more than a decade (now about one-third of vehicles sold), manufacturers have had plenty of time to roll out several generations of technology and to segment the market with finely honed precision, getting every closer to this Swiss Army knife ideal.

[Click here to read our review of the 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8]

And so it is that we found ourselves in the company of two distinctly sporting SUVs, one from Jeep that sports a 6.4-liter Hemi, and the other the second-generation SUV from fabled sports car maker Porsche. While Jeeps and Porsches don’t often find themselves being compared (despite our repeated requests for a Rubicon/959 head-to-head), the Grand Cherokee SRT8 and the Cayenne S are more similar than you might expect. The Jeep has a base price of $60,960 and the Porsche crosses the UPC scanner at a base of $65,000 (of course, the Jeep comes close to maxed out at that price, with our tester at $62,880, while Porsche offers a dizzying array of options with the result that our test configuration had an MSRP of $83,655).

Both of these cars have powerful V-8 engines, with the Jeep delivering 470 horsepower and 465 pound-feet of torque to pull 5150 pounds. The Porsche gets by with “only” 400 horsepower and 369 pound-feet of torque, which fortunately has to move a mass of just 4553 pounds. In a moment of inscrutability, Chrysler says towing is “not recommended” with the SRT8, although a towing package is offered and there is that aforementioned knob. As a reference, other Grand Cherokees are rated at 5000-pound towing capacity. The Cayenne S is rated at 7700 pounds when towing. Overall both the Jeep and the Porsche are 191-inches long, with the Grand Cherokee using a 115-inch wheelbase and the Cayenne S measuring 114 inches between the wheels.

Those similarities indicate that real buyers might rationally cross-shop these two cars. Before doing so, they might ask if the driving dynamics are similar. We’d summarize, if asked, that both these cars are more fun to drive than we expected, and we’d also mention that the driving experience is quite different depending on which wheel you get behind.

[Click here to read our review of the 2012 Porsche Panamera S Hybrid.]

Differences are to be expected, of course, because the technology behind each vehicle is distinctive, despite their basic similarities in form factor. While we could mention a whole bevy of these, let us stick to a few. First, the drivetrains are really quite different. The Jeep has a big displacement, iron-block OHV unit running through a five-speed automatic transmission. The Porsche uses a smallish 4.8-liter aluminum overhead cam engine running through an eight-speed autobox.

The result, as you might anticipate, is that the SRT8 feels quite punchy and torquey off the line, while the Porsche moves along nicely but requires a bit more right pedal to really jump. And even then, the Porsche doesn’t feel or sound as potent either off the line or accelerating from typical running speeds. Don’t misunderstand, the Porsche gets out of its own way rather well, but the Jeep just feels stronger at low revs. This low-rev behavior significantly colors the experience of these cars, because each transmission does its best to keep revs under 2000 rpm so that fuel economy doesn’t completely plummet. That means that when you get on the throttle, especially rolling on partial throttle, the engine has to run up from fairly low speeds and here the Hemi has an advantage.

That said, once the Cayenne’s motor gathers some speed it can pull the car right along. 0-60 comes up in 5.6 seconds, which puts it in company with the BMW 335i, or the Honda S2000, or the Acura NSX (for historical comparison). Even so, the Jeep will do 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, reflecting the observations made above coupled with the fact that the Jeep is no weakling as revs rise. We should note at this point that both cars come with quite usable paddle shifting systems, so that drivers can, if they wish, keep revs in the optimal band for acceleration.

The real point here, though, is not about imitating Top Fuel cars, but about feel. For those of you who love the sensations of a potent drivetrain, the Grand Cherokee SRT8 does Porsche Cayenne S one better, and you won’t need a stopwatch to tell. For those of you who mainly want enough juice to avoid that sluggish feeling, both of these vehicles are more than adequate.

Now, you may be waiting for the other shoe to drop as we reveal the handling inadequacies of the Grand Cherokee. Except that isn’t what we’re going to do. Because, actually, the suspension setup on the Jeep is pretty darn entertaining. It has plenty of roll stiffness coupled with lots of tire, with the result that you can move quite quickly on the street. More importantly, the SRT8 is rather fun in this mode; it doesn’t feel like it is constantly fighting you or that you have to bring a professional level of mastery along to tame its ill behavior. Now, certainly, a heavy, tall car is never going to turn like a Radical or a Caterham, or even a 370Z. If that’s what you want, you need a two-vehicle solution: a sports car and, probably, a pickup. But if you want your daily driver to be enjoyable on the twisty bits, well, we think the Grand Cherokee SRT8 will more than do the job.

We could be well satisfied with the SRT8’s handling, but extensive time in the Cayenne S has shown that Porsche has moved SUV handling a least a step beyond even the very good benchmark set by cars like the SRT8 or even the BMW X5M. Our test car had the full package of Porsche suspension goodies, and that may have been the reason. Porsche offers several interesting technologies to make an SUV more like a sport sedan, and feel smaller and lighter than it is. First, it has an air suspension system, which allows the Cayenne to be run in Sport mode at a lower ride height. Porsche also offers its Porsche Dynamic Chassis control, which is an active anti-roll system (leading to a less-compromised ride, with more roll stiffness than is practical with a passive system). Then there is Porsche Active Suspension Management, which varies shock valving according to road conditions and can be set to three basic modes: comfort, normal, and sport. Finally, there is Porsche Torque Vectoring, which applies braking to the inside rear wheel on corner entry to aid in rotating the car.

The amazing thing is that all this technology feels rather seamless in its application. The Cayenne enters corners willingly, but then hunkers down and hangs on in a way that feels tenacious, stable and fluid. Driving the Cayenne with this setup makes you realize how many heavy (4000- to 5000-pound) sporting cars are rendered inert by all the stiffening required to control the mass at hand. The Cayenne, by contrast, feels much more like a live dance partner than a mannequin.

Of course, the do-it-all brief of these vehicles also extends to comfort. Since we tend to have sports cars as our natural point of reference, we tend to think both the Jeep and the Porsche are positively sybaritic in their luxury. Certainly the SRT8 comes with a host of luxury features that befit its pricing. The Cayenne takes a different approach, giving you the option to get almost any gizmo known to man (or to skip them), but extracting a price for many of the things lux-lovers will want. We admire the German approach, but others will find this restricted access (to use a popular twist of phrase) frustrating.

When it comes to ride quality, we think the jury will be split. The Jeep is quite firm, though we generally didn’t feel that it often crossed the line into harsh territory. That said, our testing was done in Texas where road surfaces are above average. The Porsche has a somewhat smoother ride, though even in comfort mode, the Cayenne won’t be confused with an electro-marshmallow like the Audi A8 on broken surfaces. Again, from our sporting perspective, both of these vehicles ride very well, but we’d suggest avoiding SUVs in general if ride quality is your top priority.

A bigger contributing factor to driving enjoyment, in our minds, is the way these cars track at speed. On the highway, we would say the Jeep has good directional stability, though it isn’t nearly in a league with the greats, like the Nissan GT-R. The Porsche is somewhat better, and is a rather civilized highway cruiser. The difference here probably comes down less to chassis dynamics and more to on-center steering feel, where the Porsche is just a tad more direct.

We also view seating as a major comfort factor. The SRT8 has firm yet supple and well-bolstered seats that were comfortable mile after mile. We thought these were very slightly bested by the Porsche offering (and our tester had the base seats, though in our experience optional 2000-way adjustable chairs aren’t always better). We think most people, who after all aren’t making constant comparisons, would likely enjoy the high quality furniture in either vehicle, and that personal preference will be the over-riding element if you get concerned about such things.

As a final comfort comment, we thought the size of the rear seating compartments and real cargo areas of both cars was solidly in Goldilocks (“just right”) territory. Passengers have ample leg and headroom, and quite large boxes can be shuttled hither and yon. We are naturally mindful that, if these cars got any bigger, the dynamic joys mentioned above would be at risk of evaporation. If you’re looking for size-related quibbles, really only the step-in height might be a cause for complaint (though the Porsche can be lowered to a special “formal gown level” to get around this issue).

As you can see, we were quite pleased with the overall capability of these very sporting SUVs. They drive well, look pretty sharp, are comfortable and they can haul quite a bit. In these days of rising gas prices, the biggest area where they come up short on the “do-all” mandate is fuel economy. We got around 15 miles per gallon in the Jeep and 18 mpg in the Porsche, in a mix of city, suburban, and highway driving. In the end, you really can’t have it all, but these cars show that you can come close.

We were also pleasantly surprised with how well the Grand Cherokee SRT8 held up in comparison with a new platform from Porsche. And this isn’t because the Porsche is a weak, throwaway offering from Stuttgart. In fact, we think the new Cayenne is a honey. But, the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 can hold its head high in a real-world comparison with some very advanced German engineering.

2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee STR8
Engine: V-8, 6.4 liters, 16v
Output: 470 hp/465 lb-ft
0-60 MPH: 4.8 sec
Weight: 5150 lb
Fuel Economy, City/Hwy: 12/18 mpg
Base Price: $60,960

2011 Porsche Cayenne S
Engine: V-8, 4.8 liters, 32v
Output: 400 hp/369 lb-ft
0-60 MPH: 5.6 sec
Weight: 4553 lb
Fuel Economy: 16/22 mpg
Base Price: $65,000


2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 vs. 2011 Porsche Cayenne S
CayenneVsSTR8_17_jpg_677x1000_q100.jpg



 
花籃
分享
樓主 | 電梯直達
閱讀會員資料 發送站內短信 主題 User photo gallery 禮物  
小純潔
(只看此人)




文章 時間: 2012-3-28 10:22 引用回復
我覺得jeep 大切就別出來丟人了
 
花籃
分享
_________________


Hole!~Hole!~Hole!~
沙發 | 返回頂端
閱讀會員資料 發送站內短信 主題 User photo gallery 禮物  
nessus
(只看此人)



文章 時間: 2012-3-28 12:18 引用回復
小純潔 寫道:
我覺得jeep 大切就別出來丟人了


說這話你也挺丟人的
這帖子放在不眠夜你這麼回答無妨
但可惜人家放在了車版
畢竟這裡還是有些懂車人的 比如馬六 男
對吧
 
花籃
分享
板凳 | 返回頂端
閱讀會員資料 發送站內短信 主題 User photo gallery 禮物  
小純潔
(只看此人)



文章 時間: 2012-3-28 12:31 引用回復
nessus 寫道:
說這話你也挺丟人的
這帖子放在不眠夜你這麼回答無妨
但可惜人家放在了車版
畢竟這裡還是有些懂車人的 比如馬六 男
對吧


不懂幫頂
 
花籃
分享
_________________


Hole!~Hole!~Hole!~
地板 | 返回頂端
閱讀會員資料 發送站內短信 主題 User photo gallery 禮物  
槍槍與玫瑰
(只看此人)



文章 時間: 2012-3-28 12:34 引用回復
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee STR8
Engine: V-8, 6.4 liters, 16v
Output: 470 hp/465 lb-ft
0-60 MPH: 4.8 sec
Weight: 5150 lb
Fuel Economy, City/Hwy: 12/18 mpg
Base Price: $60,960

2011 Porsche Cayenne S
Engine: V-8, 4.8 liters, 32v
Output: 400 hp/369 lb-ft
0-60 MPH: 5.6 sec
Weight: 4553 lb
Fuel Economy: 16/22 mpg
Base Price: $65,000

這馬力和扭力比直線啊。幹嗎不比過彎?
 
花籃
分享
5 樓 | 返回頂端
閱讀會員資料 發送站內短信 主題 User photo gallery 禮物  
rainfly
(只看此人)



文章 時間: 2012-3-28 13:27 引用回復
nessus 寫道:
說這話你也挺丟人的
這帖子放在不眠夜你這麼回答無妨
但可惜人家放在了車版
畢竟這裡還是有些懂車人的 比如馬六 男
對吧


haha, nessus你總是太認真
 
花籃
分享
6 樓 | 返回頂端
閱讀會員資料 發送站內短信 主題 User photo gallery 禮物  
黑色Q7男
(只看此人)



文章 時間: 2012-3-28 14:00 引用回復
srt8是緊俏貨,加價8000才賣。不是錢的問題,是買不到。
 
花籃
分享
7 樓 | 返回頂端
閱讀會員資料 發送站內短信 主題 User photo gallery 禮物  
特別白
(只看此人)



文章 時間: 2012-3-28 16:10 引用回復
這倆都不錯.

3排座是標配麼? 有平行停車助手麼? 後備箱幾升的能放嬰兒車麼?

是hybird的不? 環保材料占多大比率?

殺價能從一半開叫不? 送終身免費洗車麼? 哦!對了,顏色選擇全不全? 有沒有珍珠白或者夕陽紅的?

最重要的,進麗晶能單手入車位不?
 
花籃
分享
_________________
不發,不評,不轉。不撕,不怒,不傳。一切愛豆,皆是虛妄。種種謠言,過眼雲煙。熱搜熱榜,不過夢幻泡影。明星劈腿,菩提靜靜吃瓜。自在刷新,歡喜圓如。隨緣點贊,善哉善哉。
8 樓 | 返回頂端
閱讀會員資料 發送站內短信 主題 User photo gallery 禮物  
calvan
(只看此人)



文章 時間: 2012-3-28 18:30 引用回復
槍槍與玫瑰 寫道:
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee STR8
Engine: V-8, 6.4 liters, 16v
Output: 470 hp/465 lb-ft
0-60 MPH: 4.8 sec
Weight: 5150 lb
Fuel Economy, City/Hwy: 12/18 mpg
Base Price: $60,960

2011 Porsche Cayenne S
Engine: V-8, 4.8 liters, 32v
Output: 400 hp/369 lb-ft
0-60 MPH: 5.6 sec
Weight: 4553 lb
Fuel Economy: 16/22 mpg
Base Price: $65,000

這馬力和扭力比直線啊。幹嗎不比過彎?


其實suv比來就不是用來比速度的,不過光從suv來講,Porsche還真不行,本來就不是做這個的
 
花籃
分享


上一次由calvan於2012-3-28 23:28修改,總共修改了1次
9 樓 | 返回頂端
閱讀會員資料 發送站內短信 主題 User photo gallery 禮物  
小純潔
(只看此人)



文章 時間: 2012-3-28 19:05 引用回復
calvan 寫道:
槍槍與玫瑰 寫道:
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee STR8
Engine: V-8, 6.4 liters, 16v
Output: 470 hp/465 lb-ft
0-60 MPH: 4.8 sec
Weight: 5150 lb
Fuel Economy, City/Hwy: 12/18 mpg
Base Price: $60,960

2011 Porsche Cayenne S
Engine: V-8, 4.8 liters, 32v
Output: 400 hp/369 lb-ft
0-60 MPH: 5.6 sec
Weight: 4553 lb
Fuel Economy: 16/22 mpg
Base Price: $65,000

這馬力和扭力比直線啊。幹嗎不比過彎?


其實suv比來也是用來比速度的,不過光從suv來講,Porsche還真不行,本來就不是做這個的


我覺得發動機NB就夠了~我覺得啊~ icon_mrgreen.gif
 
花籃
分享
_________________


Hole!~Hole!~Hole!~
10 樓 | 返回頂端
閱讀會員資料 發送站內短信 主題 User photo gallery 禮物  
 
回復主題     |##| -> |=|     論壇首頁 -> 汽車天地 所有的時間均為 美國太平洋時間
1頁,共3 分頁: 1, 2, 3  下一頁  


注:
  • 以上論壇所有發言僅代表發帖者個人觀點, 並不代表本站觀點或立場, 加西網對此不負任何責任。
  • 投資理財及買房賣房版面的帖子不構成投資建議。投資有風險,責任請自負
  • 對二手買賣中的虛假信息,買賣中的糾紛等均與本站無關。
  • 黃頁熱門商家 免費個人廣告
    發布商業廣告 2023 Buick Encore
    2024 Mazda CX-5
    2024 Dodge Charger Daytona
    2025 Mazda CX-5
    2024 Mazda CX-50
    2024 Mazda CX-5
    2023 Mazda CX-5
    2024 MINI Cooper Hardtop
    免費發布非商業小廣告

    不能在本論壇發表新主題
    不能在本論壇回復主題
    不能在本論壇編輯自己的文章
    不能在本論壇刪除自己的文章
    不能在本論壇發表投票
    不能在這個論壇添加附件
    可以在這個論壇下載文件

    論壇轉跳: 

    rainfly, 小純潔, nessus, 小純潔, 槍槍與玫瑰, rainfly, 黑色Q7男, 特別白, calvan, 小純潔
    潛力帖子 精華帖子 熱門帖子
    六四開槍視頻,嚇的嗷嗷跑,這種大屠...
    牆內你看不見六四
    反思六四,溫家寶大和解改革才是正確...
    AI正在學習擺脫人類控制
    習豬頭撐不住的時候,還會展開大屠...
    六月初四 發生了什麼事?
    今天是六月三日,還有一天
    相當無語。。。
    強 J 也可以叫做 進出?
    以色列暴行小統計
    8964
    美國小鎮小人物大官威事件
    中共到底有沒有抗日?
    俄烏戰爭
    ____成本很高耶
    大溫地區換幣活動現場報道
    全國巡回換幣活動 : 2026 FIFA世界...
    粵桂之爭的隱秘戰線:從陸榮廷到陳...
    Royal Canadian Mint 皇家鑄幣廠202...
    Royal Canadian Mint 皇家鑄幣廠202...
    TransLink推出限量版Hello Kitty公交卡
    換幣活動: $2元 國家電視塔 50 周年...
    加拿大將發行紀念皇家軍團(The Roy...
    加拿大將發行第二枚夜光幣
    Royal Canadian Mint 皇家鑄幣廠202...
    奧蘭多(二)迪士尼動物王國 未來世界...
    奧蘭多(一)城市地標及海洋世界
    Royal Canadian Mint 2026年2月新幣
    坎昆(一)
    推薦一個digital的手持放大鏡
    特朗普又幹了件冒天下之大不韙的事...
    本宮鋼琴彈奏原聲第1彈 一首前奏曲
    謝謝管理員秉公執法廢除reddragon的id
    超級重磅!加拿大要進口中國電動車!
    皮爾今天在溫哥華 - 藍色wave - 保...
    幾分鍾前,中國強硬反擊,征34+50,...
    曼谷高樓直接倒了
    我說我希望特朗普贏,老公氣得眼睛...
    知乎?加西網上為什麼有老流氓劉廳...
    明明有能力統台,大陸為何遲遲不動手?
    貌似ndp稍占上風。。。。。
    今天是感恩節,跟大家道個別,以後...
    咱最後還是投了ndp
    生平第一次被偷車了
    中國會不會武統台灣

    最新新聞 熱門新聞 熱評新聞
    曝台商猝逝疑遭強摘器官 女兒領屍被公安性侵
    2026世界杯:多國球迷抱怨申請美國簽證阻力重重
    中國利用求職平台竊機密情報? 北京怒駁
    走遍18國不當空姐了 她轉行當老師
    "其實噴我的人並不多,反而很多人對我感興趣"
    流量恐怖主義:清華天才"崩老頭"
    起床後立刻出門散步錯了? 醫揭運動4大禁忌
    副教授刺死副校長 高舉血手大喊"替天行道"
    美記者認了"當中國代理人"竊取美情資!最重判10年
    一只網紅邊牧的死亡,和一場注定艱難的維權
    突發 大規模槍擊多人中彈 眾人逃命畫面曝光
    美國據報擬允許動用伊朗資產,助海灣國家重建修復
    烏克蘭140架無人機狂轟「普丁家鄉」聖彼得堡!
    發小曝光33歲金澤最後的朋友圈:打卡王力宏演唱會
    劉浩存被王菲做局?《歌手》數據做假?
    銀河系中心黑洞首次被發現有"呼吸"
    巴基斯坦部長抵伊朗德黑蘭 將向最高領袖傳話
    央視第一爆劇《主角》:當你熬到沒人問津,萬念俱灰時,恭喜,你的人生要逆風翻盤了
    睡在廳官身邊幾十年,方知是億萬富豪
    全球經濟大麻煩!中國人死死攥住錢包
    華人司機真要失業了!8萬磅巨無霸即將上路
    硬核!鑿穿昆侖了,雪水終於灌進死亡之海
    兩天23名廳部級高官被查處 含正部級魏小東
    俄羅斯突然斷供!對中國影響有多大?
    文革悲劇:一等功臣自滅滿門案始末
    ​梅艷芳救援六四學生 黃雀行動真相曝光
    NBA總冠軍賽8千起跳 川惠帝:買不起票看電視轉播
    中國AI機器人搶盡風頭 美國達人秀演出驚呆眾人
    ​恒河欠地下的,地底開始討債了
    中國國旗被故意破壞,來自歐洲的怒火
    流浪街頭的大溫上海老移民有家了!
    曝"俄羅斯英雄"遭烏軍清除!三次與普京會面
    PNE全新露天劇場昨晚首秀容納萬人
    無數中國網友紛紛高喊 "感謝美國"
    大溫男青帶藥入境這國家 恐判20年
    震撼數據曝光!習醞釀的災難正席卷全球
    華人司機真要失業了!8萬磅巨無霸即將上路
    計算機科學課不及格率創新高 學生不會自己解題
    中國國旗被故意破壞,來自歐洲的怒火
    俄羅斯突然斷供!對中國影響有多大?
    ​恒河欠地下的,地底開始討債了
    巴基斯坦部長抵伊朗德黑蘭 將向最高領袖傳話
    央視第一爆劇《主角》:當你熬到沒人問津,萬念俱灰時,恭喜,你的人生要逆風翻盤了
    兩天23名廳部級高官被查處 含正部級魏小東
    全球經濟大麻煩!中國人死死攥住錢包

    更多方式閱讀論壇:

    Android: 加西網
    [下載]

    Android: 溫哥華論壇
    [下載]

    PDA版本: 論壇

    加西網微信

    加西網微博


    Powered by phpBB 2.0.8
    Terms & Conditions    Privacy Policy    Political ADs    Activities Agreement    Contact Us    Sitemap    

    加西網為北美中文網傳媒集團旗下網站

    頁面生成: 0.0508 秒 and 8 DB Queries in 0.0099 秒